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conversation when he said the founding fathers believe x. barack obama believes why becomes a state. so at a very fundamental level, the discourse imus on me to can't draw that distinction between the founders believed in those founders believed for some founders believed because that historically incoherent unanimity is fundamental to the way. >> host: is there any hope of propagandists to have a meaningful, construct a conversation about the founding fathers? >> guest: i think that's at odds with what most propagandists are trying to do. >> host: let me ask about the founding fathers apart from an author says that about them. was this a special group of people? maybe they've been treated on by the people you talk about in your book. this is a group of special people now and 2012? >> guest: i think these remarkable people who care deeply about their country and deeply about ideas. they were all so a flawed, very often hypocritical, very often controversial group of people, but in their own ways care deeply about the countries they were creating them what they were doing anything cut ab
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